Ask the Patch Pros: About Horse Racing and Betting

Jeff Roberts May 23, 2012 at 03:03 pm

I just heard the trainer of I'll Have Another is facing a possible six month suspension after tests showed two previous horses had elevated carbon dioxide levels. Have you heard the same? Follow up: How do carbon dioxide levels affect performance?

Becky Glander (Editor) May 23, 2012 at 03:13 pm

It seems complicated to get into racing. Say I wanted to buy a Thoroughbred and begin racing. What would be my first steps, and what kind of funding would I need?

Canterbury Park May 23, 2012 at 03:22 pm

Jeff - Yes, he is under investigation for a rules infraction. Essentially, elevated carbon dioxide levels are a signal that a trainer might have used illegal medication to enhance performance.

Canterbury Park May 23, 2012 at 03:28 pm

Becky - It is complicated. The best way to get into the game locally would be go enlist in our Canterbury Racing Club. Each year we offer people a chance to learn more about horse ownership by putting up a small amount of money to follow along the process of horse ownership. You can read up on this year's and previous year's clubs at www.canterburyracingclub.com

Chris Steller (Editor) May 23, 2012 at 05:19 pm

Gov. Dayton signed a new law concerning horse racing earlier this month. What changes will the average visitor notice at Canterbury?

Dave Astar May 23, 2012 at 05:20 pm

Becky, the Canterbury Racing Club is great. I'd only add that there are a few things to think about before you get into racing. Some folks want immediate action. With advice, you can get liscensed, find a trainer, actually claim a horse for as little as $3,500 right out of a race running at Canterbury, and be an individuial owner in no time at all. With a club or syndicate, several people can share in the original acquisition as well as the ongoing training costs. Here's a link to The Jockey Club Owners View website that contains some videos, how to find a trainer, and basic answers to common questions new owners have:
https://www.ownerview.com/getting-started/expert-advice

Dave Astar May 23, 2012 at 05:35 pm

Ryan, first the Canterbury handicapping educational programs are very good. I have sent several friends to the programs and they have learned a great deal about basic handicapping from some great people. The physical pre-race inspection you mentioned in your comment is important but the actual past pereformance race information is critical. I've handicapped for 50 years and use "PP" data obtained from Bloodstock Research (BRISNET) and Thorograph. Other folks use popular performance data from The Daily Racing Form and Equibase. All this data is available online.
Lastly, advanced handicappers learn to not just pick winners but make "best bets". The most probable winners are not always the best horses to bet. For example, the Twins unfortunately are not the most probable winners of their division in baseball this year but if someone gave you 1000 to 1 odds, they would be a "great bet" to win the division. The odds are the key.

Dave Astar May 23, 2012 at 05:54 pm

Jeff, I understand the possible suspension relates to what is called milkshaking. Milkshaking is a combination of bicarbonate of soda, sugar and electrolytes. The mixture is designed to reduce fatigue and enhance performance.

Becky Glander (Editor) May 23, 2012 at 06:00 pm

Dave, how many horses do you have racing this season? Do you race only at Canterbury or do you travel?

Dave Astar May 23, 2012 at 06:13 pm

Becky, we just bought another horse that shipped in from Louisville Monday so we have 7 that should race this year. Our horses race here, Hawthorne and Fairgrounds typically but we have also run on occasion at Prairie Meadows, Remington Park and Oaklawn.

Dave Astar May 23, 2012 at 06:21 pm

Becky, I should add that Minnesota has a good breeders fund program. This program encourages people to breed race horses right here in Minnesota. As a result, breeders in Minnesota can earn breeders fund money related to race purses. We will likely have another 15 or so horses we bred, but sold to other owners run at Canterbury this race season. We have as much fun watching those horses race as we do the ones we own.

Dave Astar May 23, 2012 at 06:46 pm

Chris, the good folks at Canterbury can answer this question best but as a horseman, this bill was critical to the future development of racing in Minnesota. I would expect more horsemen will be attracted to Minnesota as a result so we could expect an increase in both the volume and quality of horses here in Minneosta over time. I am personnally delighted that a new relationship will also bring racing similcast oppotunities to Tribal casinos across the state, allowing more people in areas outlying the Twin Cities to enjoy the great sport of racing and the fascinating hobby of handicapping.

Kay King May 23, 2012 at 06:51 pm

Becky - the Minnesota Thoroughbred Association is offering a NEW OWNERS SEMINAR at Canterbury Park on Saturday, June 9th, starting at 11:00 a.m. It's a great opportunity for people interested in learning more about owning Throughbred racehorses to have their questions answered. We'll have a panel of speakers sharing information on legal and accounting considerations, types of ownership, methods of acquiring your first racehorse, licensing, what goes in to training your horse, veterinary care, and more! There's plenty of time allowed for questions from the audience! The seminar is free and open to the public!

Chris Riddle May 23, 2012 at 07:37 pm

Becky, I train Thoroughbred Racehorses. There are several questions to ask before you decide to acquire a racehorse. You must first understand all the expenses involved. Then decide if you want to be a sole owner, or in a partnership. There are partner groups available, or you can get some friends together and form a partnership. Finding a trainer you can work well with, who will take time and show you the ropes will be essential for your first time owning a horse. The new owner seminar is a great source of information-- hope to see you There!!

Mike Schoemer (Editor) May 23, 2012 at 08:09 pm

OK guys. How good of a shot do we have for some Horse Racing History on June 9? Can I'll Have Another bring it home?

Canterbury Park May 23, 2012 at 08:31 pm

Chris - It is unlikely that regular Canterbury visitors will notice any substantial changes. The legislation will allow us to have more card tables in play, more tournaments and higher limits on our poker games. Additionally, it does give us the opportunity to simulcast with Minnesota's existing casinos. It will take some time for those opportunities to develop but we are excited as to what this legislation means for Minnesota's horse industry.

Canterbury Park May 23, 2012 at 08:33 pm

Absolutely Mike. He heads to New York with as good of a chance as any have in the last 10-15 years to bring home the Triple Crown. He has a running style that keeps him close to the pace (a significant attribute at Belmont Park) and helps him avoid traffic. Although it is certainly a grueling test, it would not surprise me should he bring home the Triple Crown.

Dave Astar May 23, 2012 at 08:54 pm

Mike, I certainly would love to see I'll Have Another win the triple crown. He has a great shot but these 3 races are incredibly tough on typical 3 year old horses. The Belmont usually comes down to the ability to handle a 1 &1/2 mile distance and understanding the timing for "the last kick" due to the tremendously long stretch that exists there. I'll Have Another has solid distance breeding with a his sire's average win distance of 7.2 furlongs, and the dam sire's AWD of 7.7 furlongs. (FYI for some, 8 furlongs equals 1 mile) Alpha and Dullahan also have breeding and past performances styles that could benefit from the distance/track. Though I may bet Dullahan since he took the Preakness off and has had some rest, as a 60 year old man I think about the whole generation of young people who has never yet lived through the excitement of a triple crown winner. Let's hope they see one this year.

Mike Schoemer (Editor) May 24, 2012 at 01:32 am

I thought we had one with Real Quiet. This would be so great to see for the sport. I'll be pulling for the Derby champ.

Canterbury Park May 24, 2012 at 02:00 am

Mike - Real Quiet was devastating. So close. If you have a few minutes, I strongly encourage you to check out this video. https://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/videos/10512/durkin-calling-triple-crown-history?section=triple-crown
It recounts some of the close calls in recent memory. Not the best quality, but super entertaining.

Lisa Baumann (Editor) May 24, 2012 at 02:17 pm

Okay – totally back to the basics here. Can any of you walk us through what might make a great experience for a first time visitor to a horse racing venue? When you arrive - what's the first thing to do? Where do you sit for the best view? What's an easy first bet to make?

Canterbury Park May 24, 2012 at 02:45 pm

Lisa - Great questions! Races typically start at 7pm on Thursday & Friday and 1:30pm on Saturday, Sunday and holidays. That being said, it's best to arrive about 30 minutes prior to the first race. Make your way to the track level information center where you can find a special section for first time visitors with educational materials, an educational kiosk, etc that will help you understand more about racing and what generally happens during a race day.
One of the best parts about the track is that all seating is general admission. Therefore, you can try out different seats around the facility to figure out which ones you like the best. Obviously, outside seats probably give you the most unobstructed view of the track. The best first time bets to make are called win, place and show bets. In a win bet, your horse must finish first to win, in a place bet, your horse can finish first or second and you win and in a show bet your horse can finish first, second or third and you win. There are diminishing returns the easier the bet gets. For example, this past weekend, Bet Your Boots won a race and paid the following for a $2 win bet, a $2 place bet and a $2 show bet: $10.80 to win, $5.80 to place and $3.80 to show. As you can see, the easier the wager, typically the lower the payoff. Hope this helps!

Becky Glander (Editor) May 24, 2012 at 05:33 pm

Are the races cancelled due to rain? How do you let people know?

Becky Glander (Editor) May 24, 2012 at 05:38 pm

Dave, do you have one trainer that works with all of your horses or do you spread it out between trainers? I also would love the excitement of a triple crown winner! I'm still bummed that Silver Charm lost the Belmont back in 1997...

Canterbury Park May 24, 2012 at 06:11 pm

Becky - Races are typically only cancelled if there is lightening. We'll run in the rain unless it's so bad that people are preparing an Ark.

Lisa Baumann (Editor) May 24, 2012 at 06:18 pm

Thanks Canterbury Andrew/Jeff! I'm starting to think we might need an ark around here. And thanks for the first-timer tips. I didn't realize there was anywhere to sit inside and watch? And maybe I'll bet show to try and win something the first time around?

Dave Astar May 24, 2012 at 08:40 pm

Becky, I've worked with several trainers over the last 10 years. Currently, we have our horses in Gary Scherer's barn. There are some very good trainers in Minnesota. I look at earnings per start trainer data and stable procedures to determine who I now use. In 2011 Mac Robertson led the league at Canterbury with his horses earning $5,322 per start in 2011 at Canterbury. The rest of the 2011 Top Ten Canterbury trainers in earnings per start, with at least 20 starts at Canterbury, included Biehler, Oliver, Bravo, Scherer, Rhone, Brinson, Lund, Rengstorf and Arterburn. (Equibase Data)

Lisa Baumann (Editor) May 25, 2012 at 03:12 pm

Just saw Canterbury Park tweet this - "Races 3 and 4 are officially Off the Turf tonight. Main track will most likely be listed as Fast."
Is this rain related? Anyone?

Canterbury Park May 25, 2012 at 03:39 pm

Yes, Lisa this is rain related. We will not run races on our turf course if it is too wet. Track conditions are as follows (from best to worst):
For Dirt: Fast, Good, Muddy, Sloppy For Turf: Firm, Good, Soft, Yielding There are maintenance tools that can be used to help the dirt course stay dry; however, those same tools aren't available for the turf course.

Dave Astar May 25, 2012 at 04:06 pm

Lisa, it is rain related. Whenever the turf gets soggy most tracks will remove the races from the turf and move them to the dirt for general safety reasons. With some exceptions for bigger stakes races this almost always happens. The turf track is typically termed to be "firm" normally and when it's a bit soggy but they still race on the turf it's called "yielding".
The dirt track is normally called "fast" but based on the amount of moisture it absorbed it might be called "good", "muddy" or "sloppy". I haven't been to Canterbury today but they do a great job there. I bet they sealed the dirt track to help it drain during the downpours yesterday so the track condition may be good or even fast tonight for racing de[ending on how much it drys out during the day. Many horses actually prefer a slightly softer "off" track. ("Off" is a term used for anything other than a fast track.)