I too, as a long-time storm chaser, can understand the confusion the public and my friend Ryan Schwartz has. I think that sirens should sound for the criteria of a tornado warning, winds of 70 mph or greater, AND in the case of 1.5" hail or greater. All of those pose a serious risk to human life/health.

However, more importantly, education of the public and having a reliable, battery back-up, S.A.M.E. set, automatically alerting weather radio in each home is more important than the sirens. Sirens are meant as a public service to people who are only OUTDOORS and within one mile of the siren, not for warning anyone, anywhere. It is also important to note that when a siren maybe most needed and it is thought you may hear it, it may be masked by heavy rain, wind and hail.

The public's best option is to have a reliable weather radio, check out the general forecast each day, and be aware of their surroundings. It is required of people to have a smoke detector in new homes, why not weather radios?

Jarrod Schoenecker
Storm Chaser and SKYWARN Spotter
WallCloudChaser.com

Good points Jarrod. What's a S.A.M.E. set? and what do others think about mandating that people have weather radios in their homes?

SAME = Specific Area Message Encoding - this overcomes the original problem with weather radios that warned for every signal they got (and the signals travel very far!) - Now - while you have to set the radio up- you limit the soundings to just the counties you want warnings for - yours and maybe grandparents or cabin location for example. You can buy these radios at the service counter of the local grocery chains at a discount or find them at other electronic retailers/online.

Rowland Hill
Shakopee C.E.R.T. and Skywarn Spotter

Thanks for the SAME explanation! Do you think they should be required as smoke detectors are? And what do you think about the Scott County siren guidelines? Others?

Really? These sirens are to warn those who are outside of potential danger, and should be at the discretion of public safety personnel. It would have been negligent to have not sounded these sirens knowing it was a holiday weekend that most people traditionally spend outside, and moreover, knowing there were 17,000 people attending an outdoor concert.

The second there is a policy added, it will delay the activation of these sirens while public safety personnel wait for confirmation that all the criteria have been met. Ridiculous. Can anyone even recall the last time the sirens went off in Scott County? It is rare. I'm not even sure they went off at all last year. Even this storm, I don't think the sirens went off in every city, they only went off where there was a percieved threat to safety.

My guess is, the questioning of the sirens going off has more to do with the fact that there was an event going on at Canterbury. Canterbury is the largest member of the Shakopee Chamber of Commerce, which is the only reason this has even become "newsworthy." Someone with $$ is probably complaining about the sirens that rained on their parade.

There is no responsible person who would have NOT sounded those sirens upon hearing of 70mph winds and large hail making a direct path to a large outdoor event.

Rich Scoville

I am mandated to have a weather radio and emergency kit in my home, I am a foster care provider...it is in the rules for our license.

Rich, the sirens went off up in Minnetonka and Eden Prairie, too... as we were returning from a trip up in Bemidji...they went off because of the high speed straight line winds. Yes the outside event needed the warning but the sirens didn't go just because of that event.

Sounding the sirens should be a federal policy not a state policy.

Hi Rich, thanks for your comments. Just to clarify, this is a discussion about warning sirens, which has little to do with the Soundset event on Sunday at Canterbury. I understand they were evacuating before the sirens went off. If people are confused about what the sirens mean, I believe it's worth a discussion and reiteration of what they mean so people can act quickly and appropriately. Thoughts? And interesting Shakopee Mom that radios are mandated for foster parents?

The Soundset event has everything to do with this discussion. Had the sirens gone off in the middle of the night, nobody would care. As it is, none of the local papers in any other Scott County city care as you can't find a peep about the sirens in any one of them. I'm not sure which cities had the sirens go off and which didn't, but it's interesting that while the Shakopee Patch, Shakopee Valley News, and apparently the Shakopee Mayor suddenly want to question why the sirens went off on Sunday, the other cities seem to care less. Why are people/orgs associated with Shakopee suddenly questioning a process that has been done the same way for years? The storm was on Sunday, but it took until Wednesday to write this article. Same for Shakopee Valley News. Three days to write about the sirens, but both stories appear within 3 hours of the closes Chamber meeting.

Adding policies would lengthen the response time and make those responsible for the sirens have to validate why the sirens went off and compare that rationale with policy. Should the criteria for sounding sirens stay the same if there are concerts, or it's the 4th of July, or the Ren Fest is going on?

Anyone who knows the first thing about hail knows hail will not form unless there is a strong rotation in the storm. The bigger the hail, the stronger the rotation.

Rich what you misunderstand from my comments was that sirens were going off in other areas (Minnetonka, Eden Prairie..but not Hopkins) and NOT just because the Soundset was in Shakopee. That was your argument. I might have misunderstood your issue. The mayor LOVES to Tweet/Blog about stuff that is so menial and can't do a thing about it. I agree with you on those points. Train whistles..had discussions for days about that. He questioned the snow plowing of the streets policy. As mayor, you think you would have read up on that stuff before you took office or shortly there after. And the Shakopee Patch editor must live on his webpage and subscribe to his Twitter posts. I lived in Kansas, Missouri and Nebraska and the sirens went off when the winds were high, 60 MPH, hail and active severe thunderstorms and when there was tornado warnings. We took cover...the sirens are not to be ignored.

Shakopee Mom, I understand Shakopee wasn't the only place where sirens when off. What I'm saying is Shakopee is the only place where multiple people/organizations reacted to the sirens. My question is- why? Why Shakopee and nowhere else. I didn't even know New Prague and Belle Plaine had local papers, but I found them, and there is nothing about the sirens. No other city, Prior Lake, Savage, whereever else they may have gone off, seems to care. My guess is they know those sirens don't go off every day, so when they do for whatever reason they should take cover. I don't know who activates the sirens, but I'm happy someone does and the last thing I'd do is question when I can see the dark clouds, hail, wind and stuff. Nobody questions that. I don't think it's ever been questioned in the past (but I've only lived in Scott County the 8 months). In Dakota County, where I used to live, sirens went off all the time. Good. Whoever runs the sirens probably has a reason to do them. I highly doubt there is someone who wakes up and says to themselves let's set off the sirens for no reason.

What really upsets me is the suggestion to make a policy. Policies are set in stone and allow for little interpretation. Weather is unpredictable and quickly changing. The two can't successfully co-exist. Whoever sets off the sirens needs to think as fast as the storm, and not recall policy prior to setting them off. That's just dumb when there are so many variables to weather.

Thanks for your comments! I would say the reason this is posted is because we found it interesting that a local storm chaser would call for a state-wide policy on siren usage and because I think it's news to people that existing siren policies/guidelines vary from county to county. I will ask if the weather enthusiast would like to join in on the discussion and add his reasoning. There's a link to his blog post in the story above, too.

Thanks Lisa. In truth, I had no idea the sirens had different policies/guidelines until I saw this story. I think the best policy would be, if you have to think about whether or not to set off the sirens, then do it. With safety, I'd rather over react than under react. What if there is a major tornado and there is no warning siren? I'd be asking if the sirens were really relavent in 2012. You'd think there would be something else out there. Maybe wind speed monitors on the sirens themselves that trigger each one individually? Or impact monitors to detect hail or debris based on the impact on some sensors?

What if sirens went off and Canterbury or another location holding an outdoor event just ignored them? Should people be forced to leave against their will or allowed to use their own individual judgement?

Although we still fight floods with bags of sand. Seems like we could upgrade how we deal with weather a bit. I used to love and follow weather long ago, but that never made me an expert. What are this blogger's qualifications other than he chases storms? Just obsesses on weather or does he have some sort of scientific degree to make his suggestion on a blog newsworthy?

This is Ryan's blog - http://www.stormchaserschwartz.com/
He's a local weather blogger, who, among other things has been chasing storms since 2008, and became a SKYWARN spotter for the National Weather Service in 2009. I don't know if that makes him an expert, but he is someone who thinks about these things more than some of us might. I didn't realize counties had different guidelines either until I saw the post. I happened to hear on MPR today that people are working on some kind of severe weather warning system that will alert people through smart phones. I'll see if there's a link to that story.

Thank you all for the comments on this story. While I do believe outdoor sirens should not be your primary means of receiving weather alerts, that is a different topic for another day. My focus with this post is the outdoor siren system and how to make it effective during severe weather.

Rich, you are passionate on this issue I appreciate it. I am glad you learned Scott Co's policy, and the different policies and guidelines for sirens. That's what leads to the confusion - every county is different, and because sirens are not sounded often in Scott County, few really know what the sirens *specificially* (not just "seek shelter") mean when they go off. There's nothing wrong with curiosity, and making the world a better place by improving upon policies. Just because some policy is in place does not necessarily mean it's a good one. Having a uniform siren policy allows for consistency, no matter where someone is at or what time of the day it is. Under my proposed guidelines, sirens would sound for the most severe storms, winds at or greater than 70 mph or tornado warnings. Whether there is a large outdoor event going on is irrelevant. It will save 911 dispatch on the number of calls on why sirens are sounding, and the public will understand there is imminent danger.

I feel, and many others as well, that sirens lose their meaning when they are blown for every severe thunderstorm, as in Dakota County. Sirens are ignored and don't serve a purpose.

I will continue to address comments and questions, as long as they are addressed in a respectful, non-confrontational tone.

Just to add, I don't believe this would lengthen the response time for sounding sirens. The emergency managers see the same warning text from the National Weather Service as does the public, which specifically states the threats in a given storm.

Thanks Ryan for weighing in on this topic, which I think is a good one judging by the vote and comments. I was just unaware myself that a siren could mean anything other than a tornado. Since I was with a friend from California who had never heard them here, I realized I wasn't sure what to tell her when she asked what they meant. Thanks for that link. Do you know if anyone at higher levels has discussed looking at this as a state-wide policy issue?

I believe the weather service used to determine when sirens would sound and would sound them by county rather than location of storm. I could be wrong.

Shakopee police used to also make the determination as well. I think maybe knowing the history of when sirens sound and by whom. Then why they have changed it might help understanding the who, what, why where now and if changes are needed.

In the 'old' days the National Weather Service issued warnings by County and in most cases the sirens sounded throughout the affected county. Today the National Weather Service uses a polygon design when forecasting a storms movement and therefore warnings are issued for certain areas and not entire counties. That was one of the driving factors in developing the current siren policy for Scott County. I would prefer to maintain the current policy where the sirens are sounded based on reports from the National Weather Service, trained Scott County weather spotters or local emergency responders. I cannot see the rational today for sounding sirens in Jordan, Shakopee and Savage if the track of the severe weather is going through New Prague and Elko-New Market. The policy used by Scott County has been thoroughly discussed by all the emergency response agencies in the county and is a sound policy which has been in place for at least 2 years.
The important discussion item here is that when residents hear a siren sounding they should turn to metro area radios stations (the one that comes to most of our minds is AM 830 WCCO), metro area TV stations or a weather alert radio if they own one. You should not call 911 to inquire about why the sirens are sounding.

I recently moved from Apple Valley (Dakota County) to Edina. It got so Apple Valley would sound the sirens when there weren't even any serious storm clouds and there was no alert on TV or radio. When they would go off at night, we wouldn't even get out of bed. I just kept one ear open for high winds or the "freight train."

to continue my above post - it's very important there there be at least a uniform statewide policy (I vote for 70 MPH wind or tornado warning for weather) or better yet - a national policy so when you are visiting another region, you know if it's the real thing or a nervous nelly public safety director covering their own tail.

Thanks for the comments, it's been interesting to read both sides of this topic. I would also like to thank Lisa for posting this article - it's been helpful for guaging what Shakopee and Scott County residents think.